Optimal mix of plans-building and kit-building - a "sweet spot"?

[gshearer]

Been running some calculations in my head about the best mix of plans building + kit building, i.e., to maximize learning while minimizing cost and minimizing time.

For example:
(1) maximize learning & minimize cost (cash outlay) = clearly 100% plans building is the way to go. But...this maximizes building time.
(2) minimize building time = 100% kit building (& I guess could even hire someone to build). But...this maximizes cost and minimizes learning.

So...is there some "sweet spot" on the curve where some combination of plans building + some kit components yields the best possible combination of minimal cost, minimal time and maximal learning (i.e., enough learning to properly do annual inspections and repairs)? We could also add into this consideration any construction that is most difficult for a newbie builder to make a safe and reliable part - hence might be wise to purchase a factory sub-assembly.

What do you think?

[mswain]

I don't think there is a single "sweet spot", since there are so many variables unique to each builder. For me, I had ZERO experience welding or building airplanes when I started and no "aircraft" type tools.

I purchased the wing rib/spar web package as a starting point for the wings and I purchased a "bare" fuselage from Mark as a starting point for the plane. Both of these I felt represented good values for me personally. The wings took me around 3 years to complete and I learned a tremendous amount in the process. I relied on the help and input of a couple of local builders during the construction of the spars and wings and in hindsight don't think I could have done it without input from them.

I have finished building landing gear, horizontal stab and am now welding up the elevators. I continue to enjoy building but there are many times I just wish I was flying at this point and I realistically have at least a couple more years ahead of me....maybe more. I've got 2 small kids and have to balance life with building.

I don't think the gap in cost between scratch and factory is as big as it appears at first once you factor in the additional tools, consumables (Argon, Primer, Paint, Blasting Media, and On and On) and higher incremental material costs you face scratchbuilding. On top of that, I agree with what has been stated here many times that buyers are more comfortable buying a factory kit and willing to pay a premium......


It's been said many times, but now having lived it can agree......scratchbuild if you desire to learn and love the building process, don't scratchbuild to try and save money on an airplane.

If Mark's used wings are still available then you could pick those up along with a basic fuselage and you'd be 1/2 way there at a good price point!

[jaredyates]

Been running some calculations in my head about the best mix of plans building + kit building, i.e., to maximize learning while minimizing cost and minimizing time.

For example:
(1) maximize learning & minimize cost (cash outlay) = clearly 100% plans building is the way to go. But...this maximizes building time.
(2) minimize building time = 100% kit building (& I guess could even hire someone to build). But...this maximizes cost and minimizes learning.

So...is there some "sweet spot" on the curve where some combination of plans building + some kit components yields the best possible combination of minimal cost, minimal time and maximal learning (i.e., enough learning to properly do annual inspections and repairs)? We could also add into this consideration any construction that is most difficult for a newbie builder to make a safe and reliable part - hence might be wise to purchase a factory sub-assembly.

What do you think?

Welcome!

I'd suggest that the optimum "minimize building time" option is to buy a flying Bearhawk. There is still plenty of building to with a quick-build kit.

Hiring someone to build a homebuilt airplane for you, at least in the US, is against both the spirit and letter of the law, and doing so undermines the hobby for those of us who make it a hobby.

The sweet spot so to speak is going to be variable for each builder, and the primary driver of that variation is going to be what your time is worth. For example, if you spend an extra $10,000 to save 1000 hours, how does that stack up in how you would value spending 1000 hours doing something other than building airplanes?

We have lots of talk about this in the archives, which includes good points from people who find themselves in various places on the time vs. money continuum.

[EricP]

mswain brings up a great point. If you want to scratch build you will greatly increase your need for tools. In our case Brent already had virtually everything we needed so it became easier for us to "justify" building from scratch. However, we really added a LOT of build time. For us that was the right trade off as we were shorter on money and had plenty of shop space, tools and time. Plus Brent just likes building things from raw material.

In all honesty, if I had to do another Bearhawk I would go for the quick build *if* I could afford it. I have gotten the building experience I wanted. So I wouldn't do it a second time but I very much wanted the experience the first time and wouldn't trade it. But everyone has to deal with their own situation.

[whee]

Like everyone keeps saying, I just depends. If I were forced to give an answer I would say order this from Bearhawk Aircraft:

Basic fuselage
Landing gear
rudder pedals
stick assembly
Engine mount
QB wings and tanks
Maybe the tails surfaces if you wanted.

There is a TON of fabrication left to do on a basic fuselage but you get a jig built O/A welded frame with the critical fittings already in place. That is huge. Everything else it fairly easy.

But at this point you are close to the cost of a QB kit so it makes sense to just buy it. There is plenty of building left on a QB kit to give your the knowledge to do the condition inspections.

[stinger]

AH, The Sweet Spot is here, this Forum! Stinger

[Flygirl1]

I’ve owned three planes now and from that little experience I determined that you can “pay me now or pay me later, but you will pay”. If you can afford the quick build kit or some combination I would highly suggest you do that. I believe you will get all the building experience you desire with the least amount of build time possible. I believe if I had to build from scratch, it would never get finished. And that’s a lot of wasted time and money. There are many ways to help cut costs like finding good used parts on this forum, Marks wings for one good one, one of Bob’s rebuilt engines for another, reconditioned prop and what ever else you can make or find on line. What I know for sure is if your more of a flyer than a builder, most definitely go with as much quick build as you can afford because THIS PLANE IS SUCH A JOY TO FLY, you’ll want to do that ASAP. D-N-D ( let me clarify, i'm talking Patrol, but the Bearhawk guys will probably say the same thing--JOY TO FLY. )

[Ed Welfred]

I am scratch building because that is what I do. I build things. I have built some major projects in the past but non have been as challenging as building this plane. The cost savings by building from scratch will not be what the numbers would first suggest. As mentioned in another thread the shop costs heat, electricity, welding gases etc. along with specialty tools, cutters and a curtain amount of waste are hard to calculate at the beginning of the project. When it comes to resale a factory kit is a known commodity. For many buyers a plane from a kit will be worth more than a scratch build that may have some unknowns.

[Battson]

<abridged>... If you can afford the quick build kit or some combination I would highly suggest you do that. <abridged> I believe if I had to build from scratch, it would never get finished. And that’s a lot of wasted time and money.

Excellent advice in my opinion.

It was years ago now, but when I took a straw poll of builders, kit sellers, and onlookers alike - there was a clear consensus that scratch building comes with a high risk of never finishing it yourself. Most people thought that only a small fraction of builders who start the process actually fly their plane [sorry]. Maybe that is more true when you include all those who never really start. Also, the "normal" 5-10 years is a long time, and your life circumstances can change in that time. That might not matter to you though, if you want an expensive way to learn those aircraft building skills then you will achieve your goal whether you finish or not.

But if you really want to throw ALL your money away, then there really is no substitute for a flying aircraft! Also, going "all in" on a kit tends to focus your attention on the task at hand. Right about the time the money leaves your account. It's a big commitment up front.

[Flygirl1]

Absolutely correct!! Once the "check was in the mail" for the kit, there was NOWAY I would waste that $$ and not finish. I really thought it would only take a year and a half though. D.

[Flygirl1]

You might also consider getting a partner or two. D. ( It helps if the partner has built a plane before and comes with all that knowledge and most of the necessary tools.🌞

[BTAZ]

My build vs buy thoughts on my scratch built LSA focused on two main points.

The first was time spent on building jigs/fixtures vs. building parts. I bought the formed ribs for the tail feathers because every rib would have needed a form block so I would have spent at least as much time making "one(two) time use" form block sets as parts.

The second was how accurately and efficiently I could estimate/purchase/ and use the raw material vs, the option.. I bought the fish mouthed fuselage tubing kit because of this.

For others, another would be parts that require machining(like the shock struts, aileron bell cranks, gascolator). I already had the required machinery, tooling,and knowledge to make these but if one didn't, it is probably better to purchase the finished parts rather then invest in the manufacturing capability.

The wings are mainly "Build this part; now, build several hundred more just like it, then repeat" so while lots of labor, time spent on jigs and setups tends to be well paid back.

[rodsmith]

I started scratch building before there was a kit, and I am still building. That should tell you something. Thankfully I started on the fuselage and bought quick build wings when they became available. I would not have had the patience to pound out all those wing parts and put them together. Like others said, there is plenty of work and education to be had putting the kit together.

[nichzimmerman]

Just adding another data point. So far, I am very happy with my 'mix' of scratch and kit. I wanted to learn all the basic skills involved with scratch building, but didn't necessarily want to build the entire airplane. Finances are also a primary concern. Therefore, I started with the wing, and as I built I kept an eye out for parts being sold off from other projects. Before I finished the ribs and spars, I had already bought:

Basic fuselage frame professionally welded from VR3 kit (lots of work left to do)
Used AviPro landing gear
Used AviPro engine mount
Used AviPro shock struts
Used AviPro fuel tanks
Scratch built rudder

I bought these new:
Front and rear seats
Horizontal stab/elevator and stab struts
Baggage doors
Aileron hinges
Other smaller things

A resource I leveraged was Eric Newton's site where he lists his exact build time for each assembly. I know it takes me about 30% longer to build than him, so I could basically figure out how much I was paying myself to build vs buy. This is why I bought the new parts that I did (especially the horizontal stab).