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  • IMG_0356.jpg
    Finally got a sprayable day Monday, so the flap and aileron spars and TE's, plus all those wing nose ribs, pocket ribs, stub ribs, and odds and ends got alodined and sprayed with 420 epoxy primer. I did the aileron and flap nose ribs, rib attach brackets, ribs, and the larger gussets a few weeks back, then did all the rib and bracket fitting. On the fence as to whether just priming everything before drilling was easier versus full build-up, then prime or prime the small bits, then prime the spars, etc.... def easier to keep track of which ribs and brackets go where, but waiting for sprayable weather in damp, chilly MD is a time suck (I refuse to kill my spray booth filters with epoxy... bad enough with instrument lacquer, plus the spars would never fit).

    Love those $9 Harbor Freight 20 oz $15 HVLP guns... cheaper to toss than to clean, given price of reducer used for cleaning. I tried acetone for most of clean, then reducer, but still saw enough residue to require full disassembly, so figure on a pint of reducer to get the gun clean enough to use again... and that is about $10 worth of the stuff with cost plus shipping. I buy those guns on sale at 40% off, so $9.60 per. Don't forget to pull off the female air fitting to recycle.

    One consideration when selecting a primer: can the gun be cleaned with common solvents, or are you buying expensive solvent or reducer to do the job? MEK is nasty stuff, but with the right PPE, way cheaper than $90-$150/gallon of the unicorn tears that Stits and Akzo use for reducer.

    And I am trying not to compare progress to others... Carlo is just starting his 6th month on the project and has flaps and ailerons ready to cover, aft and main spars built up, wing ribs and all the brackets, etc. done and quite a few of the fuselage weldments (primed and painted!!!). Called me the other day to say he found a prop for me... mid-time Hartzell paddle blade for a great price... 1000+ hours until OH...pulled after owner decided to go with ($$$) composite prop. He also found a scimitar for himself. Dude is a machine.
    Last edited by SpruceForest; 02-06-2024, 06:38 AM.

    Comment


    • woodtic
      woodtic commented
      Editing a comment
      Just starting to prime myself. Found that lacquer thinner works extremely well for cleanup of the EP420. $20-$25 dollars/gallon. Using a spray gun called the Critter. Works great for small parts, and very easy to clean. I only use about 1/2 cup thinner per cleanup.
      Last edited by woodtic; 02-06-2024, 08:16 AM.

    • Redneckmech
      Redneckmech commented
      Editing a comment
      Looking great!

      I am also hoping to get a spray-able day as well in the next week or two now that it has warmed up enough I can get the shop heated. I have also been holding off since I am using the PreKote and have to prime within 24hr of using it so I need to block out a full weekend. Haven't been able to get everything aligned quite yet.

      I second woodtic's recommendation of lacquer thinner for clean up on EP420. It works well.

  • I'll def give it a shot... acetone was not working, but maybe that slower solvent in the lacquer thinner does the trick... thanks, guys.

    Comment


    • I long ago abandoned the expectation of cleaning the paint gun without taking it apart. Here is my process, which takes around two minutes. I splash a little solvent in the cup and swish it around. Then I open up the spray volume to maximum and spray that out. Hold a paper towel in front of the outflow if you like. This is mostly to prepare for cleaning the cup. I wipe the cup out with a paper towel, with maybe a little more solvent if necessary. Then I take it all apart and spread the cleaned parts out on a clean paper towel. Sometimes a little round brush is required to clean the paint passage areas in the handle. Be sure to hold the tip up to the light to verify the tiny holes are clean. Wipe down the exterior. The process takes 2-3 paper towels and a shot glass of solvent.

      It's sort of like changing diapers. The first few times it's a little awkward but before long you get the hang of where to focus the cleaning efforts.

      I can't imagine throwing away even a cheap chinese gun just because I didn't want to clean it. But I also didn't use a cheap gun for top coats, and I probably had 30 sessions of mixing top coats. I have run about that many sessions with the same chinese gun on a few guns, for airplane projects and otherwise. Would this have yielded a 55-gallon drum full of paint guns if I had just tossed them instead of cleaning?

      Comment


      • Not a don't want to... plenty of Fuji turbine and SATA and Iwata full teardown gun cleaning for the lacquer, WB, and 2K work that I do on guitars. More of the cost and - likely more the case - opportunity cost issue. I'll see if lacquer thinner will work for those guns... otherwise an external mix gun good enough to primer with 420 might be fine.

        Comment


        • One viewpoint some may consider. A choice of a coating product line is made when we build.

          I believe Shop Solvents precisely applied from 16 oz condiment squirt bottles has saved me hundreds. The safety of limiting odors and skin contact is of higher importance to us. I know I am careless in nature on that part, so Stewarts water born products help me in the healthcare arena. The guns get cleaned like Jared does with water and a bit of Walgreens 91% isopropyl Alcohol...inexpensive and safe. When I feel a cooling sensation from a solvent on my laytex gloved hand I wonder if skin protection is compromised through the glove. I hope its just evaporation cooling the rubber.

          Something like this...but not yellow
          https://www.amazon.com/New-Star-Foodservice-26559-Squeeze/dp/B009LS6M5Y/ref=sr_1_3_sspa?keywords=16%2Boz%2Bcondiment%2Bsqu eeze%2Bbottles%2Btwist%2Btop&qid=1707309287&sr=8-3-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&th=1
          Last edited by Bcone1381; 02-07-2024, 03:35 PM.
          Brooks Cone
          Southeast Michigan
          Patrol #303, Kit build

          Comment


          • I clean my guns with lacquer thinner and I used the Super Flight system. The cleaning goes really quickly and the guns still look like new. I don't understand what the fuss is about.

            Comment


            • I think it depends on the gun and the primer and as Boomers and Gen Y's, to what degree we tolerate waste (whether or not it makes purely economic sense). I admit to being less than consistent on the matter, as I will gladly spend 15 minutes regrinding/reshaping a pair of Japanese fret cutters that are usually tossed after 10-15 uses on stainless fret wire. Really does not matter that that tooling cost is recovered via the add-on pricing for stainless at a 1/10th rate... it just bugs me to see a really nicely made tool relegated to lesser duties. The good news is that the flaps and ailerons are coming together nicely, and the rebuilt Dotco small 90 degree air drill (which appears to have built a sizable number of the aircraft in the US GA fleet based on cosmetic appearance) puts me back into favorable karmic debt territory .
              Last edited by SpruceForest; 02-08-2024, 05:55 AM.

              Comment


              • geraldmorrissey
                geraldmorrissey commented
                Editing a comment
                Love those old beat up pneumatic tools. Most all mine look like that but run great.

            • Originally posted by SpruceForest View Post
              IMG_0356.jpg
              Finally got a sprayable day Monday, so the flap and aileron spars and TE's, plus all those wing nose ribs, pocket ribs, stub ribs, and odds and ends got alodined and sprayed with 420 epoxy primer. I did the aileron and flap nose ribs, rib attach brackets, ribs, and the larger gussets a few weeks back, then did all the rib and bracket fitting. On the fence as to whether just priming everything before drilling was easier versus full build-up, then prime or prime the small bits, then prime the spars, etc.... def easier to keep track of which ribs and brackets go where, but waiting for sprayable weather in damp, chilly MD is a time suck (I refuse to kill my spray booth filters with epoxy... bad enough with instrument lacquer, plus the spars would never fit).

              Love those $9 Harbor Freight 20 oz $15 HVLP guns... cheaper to toss than to clean, given price of reducer used for cleaning. I tried acetone for most of clean, then reducer, but still saw enough residue to require full disassembly, so figure on a pint of reducer to get the gun clean enough to use again... and that is about $10 worth of the stuff with cost plus shipping. I buy those guns on sale at 40% off, so $9.60 per. Don't forget to pull off the female air fitting to recycle.

              One consideration when selecting a primer: can the gun be cleaned with common solvents, or are you buying expensive solvent or reducer to do the job? MEK is nasty stuff, but with the right PPE, way cheaper than $90-$150/gallon of the unicorn tears that Stits and Akzo use for reducer.

              And I am trying not to compare progress to others... Carlo is just starting his 6th month on the project and has flaps and ailerons ready to cover, aft and main spars built up, wing ribs and all the brackets, etc. done and quite a few of the fuselage weldments (primed and painted!!!). Called me the other day to say he found a prop for me... mid-time Hartzell paddle blade for a great price... 1000+ hours until OH...pulled after owner decided to go with ($$$) composite prop. He also found a scimitar for himself. Dude is a machine.
              I found building the spars complete, disassembling and priming worked best for me. However I primed my ribs before any assembly. In the Midget Mustang multipart build story in SA back in 1967, the author primed full sheets before any construction to help prevent scratches. Primer was cheap then, would cost you now. Paper tags from Staples tied to each detail part determined orientation, worked for me.

              Comment


              • While waiting for a couple of replacement parts for my HVLP gun (seals and such) I figured I should bite the bullet and do the upholstery for my seats. Now, I know NOTHING about how to use a sewing machine or doing upholstery, so what could possibly go wrong?

                My inspiration came from our own Michel Roy's seats on his spectacular Bearhawk. He did a great job of photo documenting how he used RipStop for the fabric and how to make all of the pieces needed and how to put them together. Between that, and watching about 100 YouTube videos I dove in.

                I won't bore you with the whole story, but lets just say that I needed to reorder more material due to "practice" runs. The good thing is this fabric is less than $4.00 USD per running yard so buggering something up is no big deal.

                I have only done the front seats so far as I only got the seat foam for them. I now have more foam on order for the rear seats. Also, as Barbie so eloquently put it "Math is hard" and I somehow miscalculated how much Royal Blue fabric I needed. However, happy circumstance, I have lots of the Lime Green so I am going to do the negative image of the front seats on the back. The Royal Blue and Lime Green colours are my paint scheme trim colours.

                Am I happy with how they turned out? Yesssss...but I wouldn't have paid me to do the job :-) They look fine, especially in low light conditions and beyond 10'. But I saved hundreds of dollars and have learned a new skill (although some of you may debate me on that). Since my Bearhawk is mostly scratch built (I bought the rib/spar kit, fuel tanks, and gear legs from Mark) I wanted to be able to say I did the interior as well.

                image.png
                -------------------
                Mark

                Maule M5-235C C-GJFK
                Bearhawk 4A #1078 (Scratch building - C-GPFG reserved)
                RV-8 C-GURV (Sold)

                Comment


                • Got my fuel valve installed over the past couple of days, need to figure out how to rotate the gascolator lower body to place the drain valve at the low point...

                  Finished fuel valve.jpg

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by DBeaulieu View Post
                    Got my fuel valve installed over the past couple of days, need to figure out how to rotate the gascolator lower body to place the drain valve at the low point...

                    Finished fuel valve.jpg
                    Loosen the center bolt like you are going to take it apart, rotate it as desired, them tighten the bolt.

                    Comment


                    • Bcone1381
                      Bcone1381 commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Will the hole in the boot cowl belly skin where the gascolator sump is accessed allow exhaust fumes in?  Are folks sealing it some how?

                    • DBeaulieu
                      DBeaulieu commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Thanks Jared, just read the description/istructions that came with the gascolator and that's as described!
                      Brooks, couldn't hurt to place some sort of thin gasket around that access panel, Iplan on doing so (FWIW)
                      Last edited by DBeaulieu; 02-13-2024, 08:08 AM.

                  • I really like Bob's gascolator because it is very easy to service at the condition inspection, and also the shortest that I have ever seen.

                    Brooks, I never worried about exhaust getting through the hole. It's around 3/4" at most.

                    I am in the process of replacing the Usher gascolator that has been on 303AP for 20 years. That installation predates Bob's unit being on the market. I look forward to eliminating a special bump-out part that sticks several inches out into the airflow. The usher requires removing four safety-wired screws and thus requires dropping the whole belly to service. Easier to service means more likely to be serviced.
                    Last edited by jaredyates; 02-13-2024, 12:19 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Mine has had a gasket to seal the small Gascolator access panel for the last couple of years, and I've removed it recently with no noticeable effects. The panel has a small hole about 1/2" for accessing the fuel drain. For servicing I remove the access panel, quick and easy. I can then remove the bowl and access the fuel lines. I also have removable panels on the sides to access that area, but so far they've been unnecessary. For inspection, I remove the cockpit floor which is a 5 min job, and from there I can access everything.

                      By far the biggest change in keeping exhaust gases out was when I lowered the exhaust pipes away from the boot cowl.

                      CFB8574B-3D6A-4CA1-B83B-607A38DE31F0.jpg
                      Last edited by Nev; 02-13-2024, 01:11 PM.
                      Nev Bailey
                      Christchurch, NZ

                      BearhawkBlog.com - Safety & Maintenance Notes
                      YouTube - Build and flying channel
                      Builders Log - We build planes

                      Comment


                      • Bcone1381
                        Bcone1381 commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Nev; your design is pretty much what mine looks like right now. Thanks for the feedback everyone.

                    • WOOHOO! It only took me twenty years, but I squeezed my first rivets today. Nose ribs are officially done!!!!!
                      You do not have permission to view this gallery.
                      This gallery has 1 photos.

                      Comment


                      • Bcone1381
                        Bcone1381 commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Beautiful!!!!

                    • Man, I'm glad that is over with. I probably have 60-80 hours into these seats and they are FAR from perfect. However, I saved hundreds and hundreds of dollars and can now honestly whine to anyone who will listen that I did them myself :-)

                      The front seats have three-layer memory foam bottoms and firm 2" foam in the back. The back seats are all just the firm 2" foam (those won't be in the airplane much if at all). The fabric is RipStop (https://ripstopbytheroll.com/) .

                      Back to painting....

                      image.png
                      -------------------
                      Mark

                      Maule M5-235C C-GJFK
                      Bearhawk 4A #1078 (Scratch building - C-GPFG reserved)
                      RV-8 C-GURV (Sold)

                      Comment


                      • rodsmith
                        rodsmith commented
                        Editing a comment
                        There has to be a lot of satisfaction in having done that yourself. Nice work!

                      • rv8bldr
                        rv8bldr commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Yes, there is. Also a lot of "...hmmm, if I had done that bit a little differently then maybe ..." but that is true of the whole airplane :-) It was actually fun and I am glad I did it.
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