Minimalist Panels

[Light&Sweet]

Do we have builders or airplanes flying with minimalist panels? I am exploring light, low power consumption ideas for basic VFR panels, NAV aside at this time, but still considered. I want to stay away from steam gauges if for no other reason than there has to be a better way. Looking for experience with installing and flying stuff like, this:

MGL’s Vega 2-1/4” instruments look good for primary info.
Their remote VHF looks good with many features, but weight may add up with control, harness, radio, etc.

Microair’s M760 REV Q Transceiver weighs less than a pound with half the power of the MGL, similar features, and maybe close to twice the cost of the MGL VHF set up.

A good handheld may still be the way to go, but an intercom would then be needed. For this stuff I am counting ounces, because—-you can with some certainty.

[jaredyates]

It really depends on what your end mission should look like, what you are willing to live without, and what features you'd really want. If you want just 91.205 minimums, you can do that in a very minimal way, but is that really all you want? I've become accustomed to having EGT, and CHT on every cylinder, for diagnostics and preventative maintenance. The bigger the engine, the more I consider fuel flow a requirement. If the engine is going to have a fuel pump, you'll probably want fuel pressure. If you'll have a battery and alternator, then volts and amps are pretty important.

In what aspect would you like to minimize? Overall weight and volume, real estate usage on the panel itself, simplicity of installation, simplicity of operation while flying? Sometimes the strategies that achieve each of these goals do so at the cost of another. For example, considering the Dynon line, a D180 will be simpler to install may likely be less overall weight than a Skyview system, because the 180 has everything except the magnet sensor contained in one box, yet it yields air data (pitot-static), attitude, heading, ball, and engine instruments all on the same screen. It will also be lighter and faster to install than a traditional 6-pack panel, but compared to a truly simple VFR panel, it has features that you may not want, such as the attitude and heading reference functions. If you are thinking of installing traditional altitude and airspeed instruments, plus rows of 2-1/4 engine instruments, you will likely come out lighter, cheaper, and simpler with something like a D180, just by disregarding the unneeded features. There are likely other competing products that can accomplish this also, but I've not researched them.

Remotely-mounted electronics mean double the installation effort (the head plus the unit), plus the wiring to connect them. The whole Skyview system is built this way. But if you are less worried about the one-time installation hassle and more about the ongoing operational capability, using something like a Skyview allows for integration with a remote radio, meaning that you can tune frequencies based on context, such as automatically retrieving the ground frequency for an airport because it knows where you are, and what the frequency should be. The years of utility come at a cost of more installing and wiring, either by you or someone you pay. Are you wanting to have only one occupant be able to use the radio? If so, a handheld with headset jacks is great. But if you want to have an intercom or have the ability for the other person to use the radio, that's going to require a few more parts. A handheld can probably still be integrated with an intercom, but that's going to take some research.

I'm in the process now of building my third panel, and this one uses lots of separate engine instruments, plus mechanical airspeed and altitude. It is designed around instruments that are already on hand, for a VFR-only mission. I prefer a more integrated option and will upgrade this one as soon as resources allow, but for now I'd rather get the airplane in the air and spend money on fuel and going places. Here's a bad picture: https://photos.app.goo.gl/cN6zo57NnFoeeapP9
The hole on the lower right is for the compass, which I'm not going to install until the very end of the process. It doesn't connect to anything and I don't want to subject it to banging around while I work on the remaining wiring tasks. The center holes are for an audio panel with an intercom, a single VHF com, a storage cubby for the ipad and a checklist, and an ADSB transponder. There is a carb temp gauge, which I could go either way on using or not, but since I had it I figured I'd use it. I'd call this a minimalist panel in the sense that it only has what I want it to have, plus what is required.

These are just some examples but hopefully you can see what I mean about needing to base these decisions more about the priorities that you have, known and not-yet-known.

[BravoGolf]

I like your minimalist approach, very similar to my goal

[Light&Sweet]

Thanks, Jared. You have framed the concept nicely.

[zkelley2]

You can usually do a low feature glass panel for less than round dials, weighs less to.

Something like the GRT sportEX gets about everything you possibly need in a VFR panel for a couple pounds and $1500. Everything is contained within the unit unless you want to expand on it's capabilities.

[Light&Sweet]

I hadn’t looked at GRT, yet. Looks good.

[svyolo]

I agree with ZK. A single EFIS is hard to beat. A small tablet as a backup, plus your phone. Triple redundancy on a budget. Even one of the mini single EFIS's plus a tablet for mapping. Self powered as well. I think that is probably as simple and light as it gets, with still a lot of capability.

[Light&Sweet]

Yes, I had considered a tablet for cross country flights.

[BTAZ]

Keep in mind the total system weight.

I thought about an EFIS but then would be dependent on ship power

I wasn't comfortable with that without some sort of battery charging going on in flight. (My "electronics" have built in batteries for BU and I can always hand prop if the ship battery goes flat).

In flight charging at its simplest means an alternator which begets ADSB and a transponder for operating in the Mode C veil I'm based in.

So whatever weight is saved by the EFIS is made up(and more) by the other required items in my airspace.

If buying new, cost might be a difference but the "aircraft specific" instruments came from E-bay(IIRC, less than $100 altogether for the altimeter, airspeed, and tach with cable; I had the compass laying around already) and about another $75 for the Bosch oil temp and pressure gauge.

The $100 tablet running Avare is way more powerful than any simple day VFR mission would need for navigation.

Initially I used an old Bendix handheld($25 on OfferUp) but splurged on a new Icom(IIRC, around $225) before heading to Oshkosh.

So new tablet, radio, and engine monitoring instrument plus a used tach, ASI, and altimeter was comfortably under $500 and works just fine for day VFR and class D operation as well as cross country and airspace awareness.

Now if I wasn't trying to stay LSA with a fixed max weight I wouldn't worry quite as much about weight.

But for an LSA every ounce you save is an ounce of legal useful load....

[Light&Sweet]

Good points. We are thinking alike.

[JimParker256]

My current plane (RANS S-6ES, an E-LSA) has about the simplest instrument panel imaginable: Analog Airspeed, Altimeter, and VSI, plus a GRT EIS (engine information system). The EIS provides everything I need, including fuel flow instrumentation. It's pretty basic, but meets my needs.

I'm considering replacing the VSI with a GRT Mini EFIS, but kind of like the ultra-basic nature of the current panel. (Picture before replacing the ancient non-working GPS with an iPad Mini / Foreflight...)

Panel_Closeup.png

[Paul Johnston]

The fuse block is underneath-facing down.there’s no lights on this ship-backups are the compass and wind up clock

[marcusofcotton]

I too have been planning to not have an engine driven electrical system, planning on total loss plus solar. Attached is the panel from my now retired trike. Remote antenna for the handheld. The MGL gauges were fantastic, low draw, programmable for different setups. I had dual EGT, CHT, coolant temp, voltage, ASI, VSI, altimeter, fuel flow, fuel level (programmable to odd shape tank), various alarms, hobbs, and a whole lot more.

20170702_152325.jpg

[Light&Sweet]

It is easier to imagine what you ‘need’ to fly or what will get used when you have practical experience in another aircraft.

[jcowgar]

With the iLevil Bomb, you can hang the Bomb on your wing, the mount an iPad on your panel. Add an EIS from GRT and you're done. I personally am not recommending this, as I think your only flight device as an iPad may be a bit risky, but talk about minimal, this is minimal. I do know of some who are doing it. I guess it depends on what your ultimate mission is and what conditions you will find yourself flying in. Can you handle the plane if 1 device goes out and you loose all flight instrumentation?

[Light&Sweet]

I thought of the Bomb in an iteration of a basic panel where the Bomb would be used when the features were wanted. Which equated to cross country flight. Extra benefit of being easily transferred to other aircraft.

[predragvasic]

There's that MGL Xtreme EFIS and EMS in one. It fits in the standard 3.1" panel hole, and it combines practically everything you may need in a single display. There are of course additional boxes that provide additional functionality, but the 4" display shows everything and all the controls are on the one single unit.

Basic unit is standard EFIS. Hooked up to the pito-static sources, you get true and calibrated airspeed, altitude, VSI, attitude, heading. With the built-in GPS, you also get basic navigation with CDI (but no moving map), and auto-pilot control. [edit: no AoA]
Xtreme-EFIS-400x349.jpg
With additional hardware, you also get complete EMS, with all the common engine data (RPM, pressures, temperatures, fuel quantity and flow, etc), voltage and current indicators, etc.

The EFIS and EMS can be shown on the same screen, or separately (in greater detail).

There is also all sorts of additional neat features, such as automatic clock, various flight timers, periodic reminders for inspection/service, customisable checklists, flight data recording (on a SD card), lot more. Basic funcitonality is under $1k. Fully loaded, with all the additional hardware is around $2,5k.

XtremeEfis-2.jpg
XtremeEMS-2.jpg

[jcowgar]

This is what I have for my panel, and an iPad (ForeFlight), Trig TT22 Xpdr, Trig TY91 Com/Intercom. My question, though, is you listed AoA. I do not think the Xtreme offers AOA, does it? It contains a LOT of useful options, but I do not think AoA is one of them.

[predragvasic]

You're right, no AoA, I conflated this with their other iEFIS systems.

[jcowgar]

OK, was hoping I missed something, because AoA was the one thing that made me stop and consider for a bit, would have liked to have it built into the unit.