Refueling?

[Utah-Jay]

I did a search about refueling and came up empty (pun intended)

Can the BH be refueled standing on a 26” ABW or is a ladder typically needed?

[AKKen07]

I think I could fill the mains on my 31s but it’s a stretch. I’m 6’3” for reference. Sorry I don’t have a 26 to be more useful.

[jaredyates]

I don't attempt to refuel without a ladder or something, even with 800s or 850s. It wouldn't have to be much of a ladder, maybe a 5-gallon bucket in a pinch. But the caps are outboard which rules out being able to stand on the tire and still be comfortable reaching the cap.

[Nev]

Can the BH be refueled standing on a 26” ABW or is a ladder typically needed?

I initially had Goodyear 26" (good tires) and was able to refuel by standing on them with one foot gently on the upper strut. Now with 29" ABW it's similar or easier.

[Utah-Jay]

Then I have a follow up question as it seems it is the horizontal reach that is a problem that requires a ladder. Would a 2 step ladder be adequate? I am wondering for instances when I am carrying fuel bladders and need to refuel. No point in carrying fuel if you can’t get it in

[Nev]

Probably. Our local fuel pump has an old chair for standing on. I used it once and the height was about right.

[Battson]

Then I have a follow up question as it seems it is the horizontal reach that is a problem that requires a ladder. Would a 2 step ladder be adequate? I am wondering for instances when I am carrying fuel bladders and need to refuel. No point in carrying fuel if you can’t get it in

It will vary from person to person - height / strength reaching overhead. Goodyear 26" tires aren't all that much help with the refueling process compared to say, an 6x8.50, they are clearly smaller than AKBW 26" tires. If you have large enough tires, then using a bowser to refuel isn't hard without a ladder.

I refuel from cans occasionally without using a ladder - it is never fun - it's exhausting. That is without a ladder. I am not a super-strong guy, and I have larger tires, so read into that what you will.
Even with a ladder and a concrete surface, it is physically demanding and hard not to spill fuel (for me) - even using a spout and funnel. Maybe a bladder would be easier in that respect?

Also the VGs make it harder, as you don't want to break them.

To hazard a guess, I would say refueling with bladders is likely to be challenging without a ladder for most people (depending on your build and physical strength), but hopefully not impossible.

[Utah-Jay]

It will vary from person to person - height / strength reaching overhead. Goodyear 26" tires aren't all that much help with the refueling process compared to say, an 6x8.50, they are clearly smaller than AKBW 26" tires. If you have large enough tires, then using a bowser to refuel isn't hard without a ladder.

I refuel from cans occasionally without using a ladder - it is never fun - it's exhausting. That is without a ladder. I am not a super-strong guy, and I have larger tires, so read into that what you will.
Even with a ladder and a concrete surface, it is physically demanding and hard not to spill fuel (for me) - even using a spout and funnel. Maybe a bladder would be easier in that respect?

Also the VGs make it harder, as you don't want to break them.

To hazard a guess, I would say refueling with bladders is likely to be challenging without a ladder for most people (depending on your build and physical strength), but hopefully not impossible.

I am now looking at lightweight two step ladders

[rodsmith]

It's been awhile since I have done much x-country flying. I don't recall any small airport self serve fuel pumps that didn't have a ladder available. Maybe that has changed. In reality I will need to have a stool or 2 step ladder in the plane any time my wife flys with me.

[kestrel]

It's been awhile since I have done much x-country flying. I don't recall any small airport self serve fuel pumps that didn't have a ladder available.

I don't see this as a problem at an aircraft fuel pump. It is for dumping portable bladders of fuel into the tanks in the backcountry or when on floats. ...or for when pulling up to an auto fueling station.

IMHO, the fuel filler ports should be inboard where they are more easily accessed. Simple changes to venting and a taller filler neck will get that last 0.25 gal into the tank if you need it.

[Bcone1381]

Moderator....This might be a thread Hijack. If so delete the post.

I think about spilling and damage to the top of the wing with a 30 pound 5 gallon tank up there. As I age I think about balance and falling, and risk and doing it where medical help is unobainable. Then carrying a ladder instead of stuff in a Patrol. How can this be made simple?

I think the folks who ferry aircraft have this figured out. I suspect it looks something like my drawing below. It's a simple electric pump to move fuel from a can sitting on the ground into the tanks. I drew it with a check valve. Could a manual ON/OFF "refuel-defuel valve" be a better design?

The next step in imagination is to use this system to install an aux tank in the cargo area, refuel the main tanks in flight, and visit Fjords of Greenland or cross the North Atlantic.
Screen Shot 2023-05-15 at 6.27.09 PM.pngScreen Shot 2023-05-15 at 7.19.50 PM.png

[Nev]

It's a simple electric pump to move fuel from a can sitting on the ground into the tanks.

Brooks, you can purchase a small fluid pump attachment for a battery drill that might work for this.

[Bcone1381]

Even better!!

[marcusofcotton]

Amazon has many D cell operated gasoline pumps with manual or auto stop 2+gpm including 10' hose options for ridiculously cheap. My brother uses short hose ones ($10-$20) and they actually work quite well. I strongly recommend using a grounding wire with them as with any transfer system.

[Nev]

Pics below of Simon refueling from the tire/strut, and also using a small chair which is similar to a step ladder with two steps.

8A4CA6AB-C3D6-43F6-81C5-F2C8AEB0C837.jpg

CEAE6BE4-2587-4637-AC28-7042D61D72AD.jpg

[kestrel]

Most of the pumps I use don't automatically shut off when the tank is full. It doesn't look like Simon can see when the tank is almost full? ...but instead will see when it is just over full?

I put the most effort into seeing if I could pour a common (in the US anyway) red plastic 5 gallon "can" of fuel into the tank. I definitely could not and still don't think it is possible. Siphoning is likely possible with the right equipment and if you are certain that there is space in the tank for the entire amount added.

Regardless, it still seems very much on the edge and limited cases that are possible. I am still of the opinion that the filler necks should be inboard. It makes more things possible and everything easier and less likely to involve a mistake or injury.