Stumped by Newton SPRL fuel valve!

[John Bickham]

Well I'm looking for some help again. Today was "put some fuel in the tanks" day.

Put my Newton SPRL fuel valve in the OFF position and started adding fuel to the Left tank. I had disconnected the line at the inlet of the carb in prep for a flow test. Didn't take long and fuel started to come out the disconnected line at the carb. Again, the valve was in the OFF position. Moved it to BOTH and the flow stopped.

Now I'm coming close to completing this 5 year project in the 10th year! I've been putting in some long hours and may be a little tired and not thinking right. The valve has pins and hole patterns that don't allow for misalignment without intent. I was going with the outlet at the 12 o'clock position and left inlet and right inlet. The LEFT and RIGHT positions indicate and work correctly. The BOTH position is off and OFF position is both. I would just relabel OFF and BOTH but the detent becomes and issue. What am I missing??? I've sought second opinions locally and no revelations, just funny noises old men make.

Could the internal ports be assembled wrong?? Grateful for any suggestions.

[Nev]

Could you post a photo of the selector handle?

[John Bickham]

DSCF2854[1].JPGDSCF2855[1].JPG

[svyolo]

It sounds like someone flipped the handle. I tried to figure out how to do it on mine. it would work better for my build if it was backwards.

[Archer39J]

My handle is slightly different but it's a Newton SPRL with a mfg date of 2012, purchased with my kit. It does the same thing, OFF and BOTH seem to be reversed. I bought a duplex valve I won't be using and the ring off that fits the original and has the BOTH and OFF labels in the right spot, so I'll just use that. Guess I'll get something for wasting an extra ~$400 on a duplex valve, and I don't have to look at that screw taking the place of the O anymore... Weird that they come that way though.

[Nev]

I did read somewhere that the valve positions can be changed and custom labeled although I can’t find a reference for it now. Not sure if this affects the LEFT and RIGHT positions.

[Mark Goldberg]

While I am not sure this has anything to do with the question asked - the valves we currently have made by SPRL and supply to builders (if wanted) has the BOTH position facing aft. The 12:00 position is off. Kind of non standard but Bob wanted it this way so the gascolator could be mounted directly to the fuel valve with a pipe nipple. The SPRL valves purchased elsewhere are not like this. They have the BOTH position facing forward. Previously builders using this valve brought the fuel line out the front and take the line 180 degrees aft to connect to the gascolator mounted separately. Mark

[Battson]

This is a great option. I have the old-school design and it's not ideal.

[John Bickham]

Thanks Mark. I wasn't aware that you and Bob had worked out the aft facing outlet with SPRL. You know that I have been at this a while. I should have listened to your hints and bought the whole kit. My valve has a production date of 08-11-2011. I'm speculating, but thinking this is part of SPRL's first attempts at "conforming" valves. I have to lift to go to BOTH (label OFF) which is opposite of what it should be. It moves freely between LEFT - OFF (label BOTH) - RIGHT. Once I have a solution and path forward, this valve is getting torn apart to see if it is assembled 90 deg off.

The outlet out the front is not an issue here in New Mexico. I got laughed at when I sumped a tank on a preflight when I first got here. An aft facing outlet would be extra margin for trips back to Louzyana (as you say).

Enjoy your Sunday, I'll give you a call tomorrow.

[Nev]

Mark Goldberg Mark, just to clarify with the valves you supply (I think I have one) - is it just the fuel line OUT connection that exits aft, or does the actual selector handle also point aft when in the the BOTH position ?

[James]

Mark Goldberg I didn''t know you sold the valves Mark when I went shopping for mine - I see the gascolator and the fuel caps listed on your website, but did I miss the valves?
Would definitely have been preferable to have the valve already configured, plus support the local bloke!
James

[Mark Goldberg]

Nev - the fuel outlet faces aft as does the BOTH arrow. The OFF position is forward. The advantage to this is being able to connect the gascolator directly to the fuel valve with a pipe nipple. This set up is not very standard with the BOTH arrow facing aft - but something that is easy to get used to. My Patrol & LSA are set up like this. The more recently built planes. Mark

[Nev]

I guess in a perfect world the outlet would be aft for a tail dragger, with the selector BOTH position still forward as standard. Whether it’s possible to manufacture is a different story.

I wonder if some of the Newton selectors have ports both forward and aft outlets - some of the diagrams appear to show this. Which could also possibly lead to OFF and BOTH being miss-connected.

[John Bickham]

Sometimes I get treated better than I deserve!!! Just giving an update on my problem with my Newton SPRL fuel selector that I bought from Aircraft Spruce quite some time ago. Not knowing what else to do, I sent an inquiry to the manufacturer in England this weekend. All I was hoping for was MAYBE a recommendation for dismantling and fixing the internals. It took a couple of days to work through the time zones differences, but just got off the phone with Rob Selby of Newton Consulting and he offered to send me a replacement valve. That is pretty impressive to me. I think I purchased this valve 7 or 8 years ago to have it for fitting/welding the fuselage.

I'm not sure if Mark has a sufficient supply of these valves, but if he does and you purchase one, know that the manufacturer will stand behind the product. The rear facing outlet is an extra safety margin that you can get from Mark.

Appreciate all the help and info. Put brake fluid in yesterday. Getting close with 90% to go!!!!!

[svyolo]

I am in the process of final installing lots of stuff, including the fuel system. I never made up the last couple of lines (T's to fuel valve, fuel valve to header). My fuel Newton valve came with several misdrilled holes from the factory. Pretty sloppy. I think they also chose poorly as far as where to put mounting holes. But for the first time I looked inside. The L AND R ports are pretty big, but with very sharp edges inside. The fuel does a 90 from each, up, then a 90 over, then a 90 down, then a 90 out. 4 sharp, 90 degree bends. The outlet port has very sharp edges at the outlet, and at the beginning of that fluid path.

I am going to use it because I bought it. But it sure looks like it is everything we are trying to avoid. Groco marine 4 way valves do a single 90, and are ported for 1/2" lines. And they are half the price. The Groco's are a little heavy. It Newton valves might be by far the biggest restriction in the fuel system if you are using one.

[whee]

I am in the process of final installing lots of stuff, including the fuel system. I never made up the last couple of lines (T's to fuel valve, fuel valve to header). My fuel Newton valve came with several misdrilled holes from the factory. Pretty sloppy. I think they also chose poorly as far as where to put mounting holes. But for the first time I looked inside. The L AND R ports are pretty big, but with very sharp edges inside. The fuel does a 90 from each, up, then a 90 over, then a 90 down, then a 90 out. 4 sharp, 90 degree bends. The outlet port has very sharp edges at the outlet, and at the beginning of that fluid path.

I am going to use it because I bought it. But it sure looks like it is everything we are trying to avoid. Groco marine 4 way valves do a single 90, and are ported for 1/2" lines. And they are half the price. The Groco's are a little heavy. It Newton valves might be by far the biggest restriction in the fuel system if you are using one.

I agree. I did the same thing, installed it because I already had it, but I didn’t know about the Groco at the time. I found the Groco valve by accident shortly after completing my fuel system and very nearly removed the pos SPRL valve. I wish I would have.

I used a chainsaw file to remove the machining burs and sharp edges before installing the SPRL valve. Twice I’ve had it freeze in the off position when some small about of water got in the fuel system. The water collects in the valve because of the flow path within the valve. Keep your fuel clean and you won’t have that problem.

[JimParker256]

Dang! How do you "like" a comment? I drove several MGs and Austin-Healey's in my younger days, and can vouch for the well-deserved "Lucas, Prince of Darkness" title...

[whee]

Haha. I rebuilt a TR6 but the name Lucas doesn’t bring back any memories. I suppose I got lucky.

Svyolo, Based on your description there is no chance I’d install that valve. Send it back and get a replacement. I had to do that with my first valve. You wouldn’t install any other part with multiple miss-drilled holes...

[JimParker256]

My first British car was an Austin-Healey Sprite. Not only did it have Lucas electrics, but it was "positive earth"... In my innocence of the evil prince, I fried one otherwise perfectly good radio (with cassette player!), at least one set of speakers, and a few miscellaneous body parts. I sometimes wonder if half the "bad rap" of those Lucas components was the "positive earth" part of it...

But I can attest to having coils randomly fail (often enough that I made room to keep an extra pair in the toolbox in the tiny trunk), headlights go out (at 65+ mph on winding mountain road, during an absolutely moonless night), etc. Lucas relays, coils, etc. were absolute crap, but it was hard to find anything else that would purport to work with "positive earth" designs. So many things are grounded through the bolts that mount them!

Fun times! On the "plus" side (and to bring this back around to aviation topics), I think owning a British sports car helps to develop excellent troubleshooting skills! And balancing the four independent (tiny) carbs on that 1100 cc four-cylinder engine makes balancing the twin carbs on my Rotax seem like child's play! LOL