Advice from those who know

[RobinDeMarco]

After all the fun COVID caused, I’m finally back to being ready to order my Bearhawk plans but now I’m faced with a new decision: 4 or 5?

My mission is for several moderate cross countries (~500 nm) per year along with monthly 200 nm trips to see family. Average load will be my spouse and I, a 40 pound service dog and baggage. Either plane works by the numbers. My spouse and I are not small people; we fit in the 172 but it’s very...cozy. Thus far I haven’t had a chance to sit in a Bearhawk, so I need to rely on those of you who are flying. How tight is it with two 250 lb people in the front? Would the extra 2.5” of the -5 be worth the extra cost of the larger engine and fuel burn?

I am a low time rusty pilot getting back into aviation. I am in the process of joining a flying club and planning to begin tailwheel training in November (if the plane is back online) so insurability is also something I need to keep in mind.

Thanks for any thoughts or advice,

Robin

[rv8bldr]

Hi Robin

Being on the "robust" size myself, I feel your pain. I am 2/3 of the way through a Bearhawk 4pl (scratch built) so it is too late for me. However, were I starting today, I would go with the Bearhawk 5. You don't have to put the monster engine it. While it would probably be underwhelming with an O-360, but it should certainly be fine with an O-540 especially with your planned usage. You will LOVE the extra width in the cabin and the extra baggage area in back will come in handy some day.

I own and fly a Maule M-5 and trust me, that is cramped. I am really looking forward to the Bearhawk for the extra space, but now have Bearhawk 5 envy :-)

My $0.02

Mark

[jaredyates]

Engine size may be a good thing to consider. What would be a typical cruise altitude on your trips? If it is 6-7000 feet, I think you would have a good airplane with a 360, which would make the 4-place an option. If you were wanting to routinely climb to 10k feet, or wanting the shorter takeoff run and thus in the market for a 540, then it seems like the Five would be good. The marginal cost increase between a 540-powered 4-place and a 540-powered Five is small. The difference between a 360-powered 4-Place and a 540-powered Five is quite large, probably at least $10k. I wonder if there is a 4-place that you could get to somewhere to sit in?

[RobinDeMarco]

Jared, thanks for pointing out the altitude consideration. I went and looked at one of the areas where we will be going on our longer sojourns. 7000 foot mountains on the route suggest the larger engine would be a worthwhile consideration.

[whee]

Robin, It will be worth your time to find a BH 4 to sit in. Keep in mind that how the builder finished the plane will have a large affect on how you fit. I made an effort to make my airplane as roomy as possible. A guy came to sit in my plane to try a BH on. He was like 6’6” and 300lbs...a big dude. He fit. I don’t recall if his wife got in the plane next to him but he said there was room and it may have been the most comfortable plane he has sat in. Two 250lb people up front will be cozy.

When my kids are gone I won’t want a bigger plane than my 4-place and that is part of the reason I picked it. However, if the 5 was available I would have built it...but then I would have planned to sell it when the kids were gone. I’m not the “bigger or more is better” type.

[Bcone1381]

The difference between a 360-powered 4-Place and a 540-powered Five is quite large, probably at least $10k. I wonder if there is a 4-place that you could get to somewhere to sit in?

$10K doesn't sound very much to me. Even if the Model B fits the mission, the capability/availability of a Five could drive the value of it to a new threshold. An IO-470 might save that much.

[svyolo]

I was going to mention the Conti options. There are a lot of low/mid time IO-470/520/550's out there.

[Battson]

It's a real crap shoot on engine prices, some say the -360 cores are more expensive than a 540 core because they are in higher demand.

If you get Bob to make your engine, then the price difference is negligible on the cost of the whole aircraft.

I wouldn't risk the investment of building a plane, to have the wrong one. Definitely go for the larger model in my view, be comfortable

[RobinDeMarco]

Thank you to everyone who responded. Given the responses, I think I will be scratch building a -5 as soon as the plans become available.

[Sir Newton]

There is no replacement for displacement ! BH5 is a formidable platform in 300+HP range. BH5 out guns a Murphy Moose SR3500 with less fuel burn.

[JimParker256]

I'm 270 lbs, and while the Patrol is extremely comfortable to me, the BH4 is just a bit on the tight side with a large-ish person in the other seat. The Five appears to solve that issue nicely. Go for the Five. As Batson said, it would be a real shame to spend the time and money to build a BH4, only to realize you should have built the BH5 instead. The cost difference becomes a "rounding error" by the time you're done with the build.

[svyolo]

If the 5 were available when I bought the kit, I would have bought the 5.

[whee]

I'm 270 lbs, and while the Patrol is extremely comfortable to me, the BH4 is just a bit on the tight side with a large-ish person in the other seat. The Five appears to solve that issue nicely. Go for the Five. As Batson said, it would be a real shame to spend the time and money to build a BH4, only to realize you should have built the BH5 instead. The cost difference becomes a "rounding error" by the time you're done with the build.

Ain't that the truth! I hunted high and low for a slightly bigger airplane to build. Looked at options for more cabin space in a BH, fantasized about stretching the fuselage, and did all I realistically could to make it work for my family. Then, right when I finish my build, the plane I was looking for comes to market. Talk about a kick in the nuts. Ocassionly I have to shake off delusional thoughts of selling my plane and buying a...Cessna

[kestrel]

Enough free time to fly out to Lockport would be tough for me to come by, but it you can make it to NH, or almost to NH, I'm at NH16 with a 4 place. I'd be happy to give the full tour to set a reference point for a 4 vs. 5 decision.

[RobinDeMarco]

Enough free time to fly out to Lockport would be tough for me to come by, but it you can make it to NH, or almost to NH, I'm at NH16 with a 4 place. I'd be happy to give the full tour to set a reference point for a 4 vs. 5 decision.

Kestrel, not sure I will be able to do make the trip until next spring. If the offer is still open then, I very well may take you up on the offer. Thank you!

[kestrel]

Contact me any time. Cheers!

[zkelley2]

After all the fun COVID caused, I’m finally back to being ready to order my Bearhawk plans but now I’m faced with a new decision: 4 or 5?

My mission is for several moderate cross countries (~500 nm) per year along with monthly 200 nm trips to see family. Average load will be my spouse and I, a 40 pound service dog and baggage. Either plane works by the numbers. My spouse and I are not small people; we fit in the 172 but it’s very...cozy. Thus far I haven’t had a chance to sit in a Bearhawk, so I need to rely on those of you who are flying. How tight is it with two 250 lb people in the front? Would the extra 2.5” of the -5 be worth the extra cost of the larger engine and fuel burn?

I am a low time rusty pilot getting back into aviation. I am in the process of joining a flying club and planning to begin tailwheel training in November (if the plane is back online) so insurability is also something I need to keep in mind.

Thanks for any thoughts or advice,

Robin

So your spouse, you, the dog and bags into 700ftx15ft undulating strips or that same load into a paved runway or a putting green of a grass runway? Makes a big difference. Also what's the expected density altitude?

[tailwind]

The extra space will be welcome. Use the extra hp when required and reduce the power for better economy when not required.