The Competition is FIERCE!

[robcaldwell]

First.... Vans announces the RV-15, and now this!!!

What will we do?????

(Of course, I am being completely and totally facetious...)

Sonex-High-wing-2048x1444.jpeg

[Utah-Jay]

Kinda funny to be honest

Short skinny wing

[Battson]

The RV 15 will probably be something like a high wing RV-9.

It's a neat idea, but tin can aircraft will never have the rugged durability of a Bearhawk, Maule, or Cub.

If Vans are smart, they will rip off the Dream Aircraft Tundra - that plane should have been a big hit off airport, just the company wasn't up to the challenge. When I was buying the Bearhawk 10 years ago, they looked like a real contender, glad I backed the right horse / dodged that bullet.... When you Google "dream aircraft" now, their website doesn't even have enough hits to make page 1 of Google...

It definitely say something good about the off-airport scene when Vans is sitting up and taking notice.

Dream aircraft Tundra
Tundra.jpg

[JoHo]

Cessna 180 and 185 are extremely desirable all aluminum planes, I'm surprised Van's isn't going for that form factor. If they had that available, I believe it would be a direct competitor for a lot of Model B prospectives.

[spinningwrench]

Looks like a Whitman Tailwind. Nit surprising coming out of Oshkosh. I agree tube and fabric represents the toughest back country option but VANs will bring out a well engineered machine with superb manuals and ease of assembly.

[Gerhard Rieger]

A3D76213-4E19-4CA9-8EE6-4DF9C961AAA2.pngD21C0B38-9A60-4DFF-9E31-EBBF044876E5.png

[Gerhard Rieger]

South African based Sling Aircraft’s new high wing range

[Chewie]

Clearly Bob needs to design a low wing.

[robcaldwell]

I almost made the same comment, but held back for fear I would get banned from the group!

[JoHo]

I thought he already did, but it also had a high wing at the same time.

[predragvasic]

If Vans are smart, they will rip off the Dream Aircraft Tundra (...) When you Google "dream aircraft" now, their website doesn't even have enough hits to make page 1 of Google...

Their web site still exists (languishing on Google's notorious Page 2), still with the late 90s look & feel, last updated in 2006 or so... Someone is apparently still paying for web hosting (and domain registration).

[gregc]

Interesting article in Kitplanes (October 2021) about multiples issues with an early Tundra. Bottom line, be happy you are building a well engineered Bearhawk.

[Brian Mason]

That article in Oct 21 Kitplanes was a bit of a horror story

[zkelley2]

That article in Oct 21 Kitplanes was a bit of a horror story

Ya it is. And coming from Paul, I'd say that design is finished.

[Phil]

From what I've read, the Sonex high wing will be just that, a high wing sonex. They've flat stated it's not intended to be a back country plane. As for the RV-15, I expect it will be a very nice plane with performance similar to it's other designs. So I expect TO and Landing distances around 500 ft and cruise in the 170 mph plus range. Maybe not an off airport bush plane, but I expect it'll be suitable for many maintained back country strips.

[Phil]

https://www.vansaircraft.com/rv-8/#aircraft-details-2 I've watched a few RV's take off and land with two big guys on board, so I'd say their performance table are pretty accurate.

Also, you'd be amazed at how many cub drivers say the same thing about the Patrol. "No way it can take off and land like a cub and cruise that fast."

[JimParker256]

Phil, I also believe that Van's high-wing will likely meet their performance targets – they always do. But the current RV models aren't exactly "off-airport" capable, even if they can takeoff and land in 500 feet or so. They're fine on reasonably smooth grass runways, but I would definitely NOT try to land off-airport. The gear legs and relatively small wheels that help with those nice cruise airspeeds work against off-airport work. By the time you put a set of larger tires on that gear, the cruise speed drops pretty dramatically. Probably still pretty decent cruise speed, but it would not be really competitive with a "standard-tire-size" RV7 or RV8.

It will be interesting to see what the final design looks like, and how much the off-airport STOL-type performance impacts the cruise performance. My take is that the new high-wing RV won't be direct competition for the Bearhawk line, but could be a real competitor for the RANS S-21 and the Glasair Sportsman. Should be fun to watch the marketplace response.

[Phil]

Jim, If you read my original post, I clearly said I expect it to be suitable for maintained back country strips, but not off airport. After all, I've seen a lot of pictures of RV's at Johnson Creek, and even the Supercub.org guys call that a back country strip. So, we agree 100%. I'm looking forward to seeing what Vans comes up with.

That said, I had the pleasure to know an old pilot, sadly gone now, who used to land a Beech Bonanza on gravel bars in Alaska. Yes, there were witnesses who confirmed it. So many aircraft we wouldn't consider bush planes can operate off airport. Here in Alaska, the most common commercial bush plane is the Cessna 206/207, and the Cherokee 6-300 is popular for beach landings in Western Alaska. Not what we commonly consider bush planes.