Alaskan Bushwheel sizes.

[schu]

There isn’t a place in the Idaho backcountry that you can’t go on 8.50s.

Define backcountry?

This?

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Or this?

hawkins.jpg

For me, I want to do this:

DSCN9307.jpg

And I think that Dessers will get me there without the expense of chewing through bushwheels on pavement.

We will see.

[zkelley2]

The 31v dessers will for sure take you where you want to go. I'd imagine even the 8.50x10 dessers would accomplish your bottom picture mission.

[schu]

They probably would, but I also want the AOA and prop clearance. Also, a little bigger does provide a little more insurance.

I have 26’s on my 170 and I’ve landed on beaches. I have an idea of what you can do with them.

[Battson]

I have landed worse places than those three photos with 26" GY tires on, which are hardly any bigger than 8:50s.

[whee]

Schu, notice I said “Idaho Backcountry.” I wish we had AK like backcountry here but such places in the lower 48 are mostly wilderness areas so no landing unless there is a runway. If there is a runway it’s likely that big tires are unnecessary.

[schu]

Schu, notice I said “Idaho Backcountry.” I wish we had AK like backcountry here but such places in the lower 48 are mostly wilderness areas so no landing unless there is a runway. If there is a runway it’s likely that big tires are unnecessary.

Okay, I get it. I didn't realize that all of that was off limits. There are actually places around here I can fly to and hit gravel bars, and of course I expect to fly my BH to AK every other year.

schu

[zkelley2]

If I did a trip to the lower 48 I'd probably go to the trouble of putting 6's on for the trip and have the 31s in the back if I thought I needed them when I get there.
15-20kts is a lot over 2000nm. I even kinda wish I still had my smaller tires on every time I fly down to just homer or up to Healy.

[schu]

You fly jets and other fast airplanes. I have only flown slow airplanes, which is my secret to being happy with big tires. I don’t know what I’m missing.

[zkelley2]

Grass:
Bushwheels are a disadvantage on wet grass, you have almost no grip for braking or steering. The meadow has to be quite lumpy for the bushwheels to pay off.

They're really bad on about any slick surface. Flying my 31s on hard packed snow and ice recently, I have no brakes at all. They just lock up instantly. It's really crappy with a stiff crosswind while taxiing as the airplane badly wants to weather vane into the wind and you have no brakes to help with the steering to keep it straight.
Of course any smooth tire is going to be this way. That's why most aircraft tires have some sort of chines on them, when they don't anticipate throwing rocks into the back of the prop being a large concern.

[AKKen07]

I second that! One time going from one Citabria on 26 GYs to another on 31s made a remarkable difference on hard packed snow. Enough that I almost had a very bad day.

[Mark Goldberg]

The Model 5 on display at OSH needs some bigger tires on it than the 8.50 x 6 tires it has flown with. Not because it NEEDS bigger tires for operations. Just for the "look" of bigger tires and the attention pilots give to a plane with bigger tires. You guys seem much more aware of the options than myself. What would be a "low cost" tire selection of some bigger tires that would impress the public? I would appreciate the advice. Do not really want to spend big $$ on Bushwheels (29's or 31's) if there is a lower cost alternative. That still looks impressive. Thanks. Mark

[zkelley2]

The Model 5 on display at OSH needs some bigger tires on it than the 8.50 x 6 tires it has flown with. Not because it NEEDS bigger tires for operations. Just for the "look" of bigger tires and the attention pilots give to a plane with bigger tires. You guys seem much more aware of the options than myself. What would be a "low cost" tire selection of some bigger tires that would impress the public? I would appreciate the advice. Do not really want to spend big $$ on Bushwheels (29's or 31's) if there is a lower cost alternative. That still looks impressive. Thanks. Mark

The Desser 31's are a good bit cheaper last I looked, but they require a 10 inch wheel. By the time you buy a set of grove 10's to go with, you're at or above a ABW 31. However since you don't actually need the performance of a tubeless tire, you could run the desser 31's with tubes on 6 inch wheels with the 10 inch gar aero adapters. Those have been around long enough you might be able to grab a pair off a wrecked 180/185 out of a salvage yard for not a whole lot.

Other than that the only "low cost" option is the goodyear 26, but it doesn't have that ramp presence you're looking for.

[Battson]

To me, the 10" hub erodes the "ramp appeal" of the large tires.
In my opinion, 31" ABWs have the best ramp appeal because the ratio of rubber sidewall to hub is greatest. They just look bigger.
Mark - I think Z is right though, with the amount of pavement these demonstrators have to do, buying ABWs would be the wrong decision.

[rodsmith]

[QUOTE=Battson;n62676]Here's a brief overview of my thoughts on the subject:
https://backcountrypilot.org/knowled...188-tire-guide

Outstanding article! Great to have all the actual tire sizes/weights in one place.

[rodsmith]

The Model 5 on display at OSH needs some bigger tires on it than the 8.50 x 6 tires it has flown with. Not because it NEEDS bigger tires for operations. Just for the "look" of bigger tires and the attention pilots give to a plane with bigger tires. You guys seem much more aware of the options than myself. What would be a "low cost" tire selection of some bigger tires that would impress the public? I would appreciate the advice. Do not really want to spend big $$ on Bushwheels (29's or 31's) if there is a lower cost alternative. That still looks impressive. Thanks. Mark

Might keep an eye out on Barnstormers. A few weeks ago I saw a lightly used set of 29x11s on Cleaveland wheels with Gar Aero adoptars for $1500. Now I don't know why I didn't buy them, except they are quite heavy.

[schu]

The Desser aero classic 29x11x10 isn't on Jono's guide:

https://shop.desser.com/29x1100-10-4-ply-aero-classic-smooth-tundra-ttxtl/ecomm-product-detail/323338/

As for weight, they are all heavy compared to 6.00's but the Desser does seem lighter than the bushwheels.

http://www.seaplanesnorth.com/tundra-tires/

List pricing for the 29's is:
(2) $785.00 for the tires
(1) $3,195 for the brakes/wheels/rotor

Total is $4765 which is a lot, but then again, bushwheels:

(2) $1878 for the tires with heavy tread
(1) $2621 199-62A Wheel and Brake Assembly

Total is $6377

So, I suppose it depends on if you already have 6" wheels or not and how fast you run through them.


Screen Shot 2021-03-17 at 2.39.10 PM.png

[zkelley2]

You can pick up a used wheel and brake assembly for around $400. A lot of twins had double puck brakes and the appropriate rotor and wheel.

[whee]

Zkelley, I was thinking about buying a 10” wheel/brake set off a twin. Seems like they would work well with Desser tires but I couldn’t ever determine the wheel spacing for sure. Should/might fit wasn’t good enough for me to take the risk.

[zkelley2]

Find out the model number on the wheel and we could probably figure it out.
You won't be able to run tubeless with them though.

[schu]

The Model 5 on display at OSH needs some bigger tires on it than the 8.50 x 6 tires it has flown with. Not because it NEEDS bigger tires for operations. Just for the "look" of bigger tires and the attention pilots give to a plane with bigger tires. You guys seem much more aware of the options than myself. What would be a "low cost" tire selection of some bigger tires that would impress the public? I would appreciate the advice. Do not really want to spend big $$ on Bushwheels (29's or 31's) if there is a lower cost alternative. That still looks impressive. Thanks. Mark

That's easy,

Order a set of 29" bushwheels with heavy tread, pay the $3500 or whatever it is, fly it for one week then advertise them for $2900 after oshkosh with 10 hours on them. Ultimate cost is $600 and you will have the best ramp appeal.

[zkelley2]

Ya this is by far the cheapest option.

[whee]

I agree with schu, heavy tread 29s will be the least expensive and best looking option. Easy to swap them out when the plane isn’t going to shows and will allow the plane to show its speed when on 8.50s. 31” Dessers would be good too but adding the expense of a wheel/brake set puts the cost quite high. But if the plane is going to live on the 31s and used for demos frequently then 31” Dessers would be a solid option.

[Rollie]

At Osh Kosh 2019 I checked out the Grove display looking for the 10" wheel / 31" Desser setup. They had a show special price of about $3500 for the wheels/brakes and tires as a package. I didn't realize just how good a deal that was at the time. I should have bought it then. Maybe if Osh Kosh happens this year they might have a deal like that again. If so, I'll put my used bush wheels up for sale and buy that set up.

[Battson]

allow the plane to show its speed when on 8.50s.

Yes that is a good point, the plane is not going to hit it's speed promises with larger tires on.

[svyolo]

There are a few things on airplanes that I scratch my head at the cost/value. Multi thousand dollar wheels and brakes are high on that list.

[Bcone1381]

I suspect that all of us on this website are visionary dreamers. Big tires moves a pilot and his airframe towards dream fulfillment. So, Dream and dream BIG!!

[zkelley2]

It's why I'm constantly trying to dissuade people from buying them. I go back and forth on if I need them, and the truth is there's only a couple places I go where I do, which is how I was able to run around for most of last summer on 800s. Landing next to the cubs on 31s with no issue whatsoever.
Most 31s get used to land on putting greens of a runway that a cirrus with 5.00s and wheel pants would also have no issue going to.

Schu hit it pretty head on with his three photos. Top photo, bring the cirrus, pc12/king air, maybe a citation if the DA isn't too bad. Middle photos needs the big tires. Bottom photo can get away with something medium.

I so rarely see photos or videos of people in the L48 anywhere they need a bushwheel. It's purely the youtube instagram marketing cosmetic thing.

[schu]

I’ll add that the middle photo doesn’t need bushwheels because the ground is uneven, rather, it needs bushwheels for prop clearance and for when you nail a rock or strump you didn’t see,

The last photo is in the middle because visibility is much better, but you could still hit a stump or rut or something.

You don’t buy bushwheels because you need them all of the time, you buy them because sometimes stuff doesn’t go to plan, and your gear needs to soak up the missed margin. I have a friend with 35’s on a cub that nailed a stump hard enough to crack the gear. Bushwheels saved his airplane.

[Dave Roberts]

I started out with 8:50s, went to 29x11 on Gar aero adapters, have been on 29” AWBs for about 5 years. I put the 8:50s back on once for about 2weeks. With the bushwheels I get way less rocks and sand in the prop. Even if I were landing where I could feasibly land with the 8:50s I would still run the bushwheels. They are so much easier on the gear and everything else. And if you ever have to do a dead stick landing they might save your airplane.