Insurance

[robcaldwell]

Just curious what others have experienced with insurance, specifically for the 4-place. A friend of mine has a Glasair III with a hull value of about $150K. His insurance runs about $2,500/yr. I just received a quote of $5,500/yr for a Bearhawk 4-place 260hp. (I have 800hrs TT with 100 tailwheel - Commercial, Instrument, CFI). The quote is from Air Capital, the same company that covers my friends GIII. It seems to me that the BH is a much safer and reliable aircraft compared to a GIII. Are the rest of you paying $5,500/yr to cover your BH 4-place?

[tailwind]

I have received high quotes like that. I found that EAA had the best quote at far less.

[jaredyates]

2000-4000 is more in line with what I have heard in the past.

[svyolo]

I thought retractable gear doubled or quadrupled rates.

[Rollie]

Try Parrish O-Neil. 740-397-6737. They are a broker in Ohio and always seem to have very good rates. I had my Pacer insured with them and now my Patrol. When I got my Pacer I didn't have any tailwheel time and yet my premiums were less than a lot of the higher time guys on the short wing Piper forum.
I'm paying less than half of what you got quoted to insure my Patrol. Now I do have a little more time than you listed and an ATP. They used to say 1500 hours was the magic number for insurance to get affordable, but I don't know if that's still true.

[svyolo]

I hadn't thought about an upcharge for not having a training wheel up front. Makes sense I guess. I am going to have to learn how to fly without one as well.

[Bissetg]

Just pondering my upcoming insurance renewal, what level of deductible, SI etc. NZ is a small market and underwriters are mostly based off shore.

To lower the cost options are to go for a higher deductible or lower Sum Insured. Typically off airport ops have a higher deductible than airport ops. EAA plan isn’t an option for us.

If anyone has any advice it will be gratefully received.

[Nev]

I've just renewed for 0.7% for NZ$300K (USD$182,000) with a $50K excess. It includes NZ$2,000,000 Public liability cover. Effectively this means that I'm self insuring the bottom and top end, and any smaller potential "claims" will be covered by me. The premiums are getting high enough now that insurance has become a sizeable part of my hourly operating costs.

Backcountry flying does have a reasonable risk associated with it, however tail-draggers themselves have a much higher risk profile than other aircraft too whether operated on airport or off-airport.

[Richard E]

Grant, We pay 2.4% on $250,000 with an excess of $5,000. We pay dearly for having little tailwheel experience and age. We insure through Traffords a Lloyds underwriter in the UK. When we come to renew I will probably increase the excess if it brings the premium down enough.

[jaredyates]

Is "excess" the term that is used in NZ for what we call a deductible in the USA?

[Nev]

Yes that would be correct Jared. In other words if I make a claim for 100K, they would only pay out 50K.

[alaskabearhawk]

Insurance for my BH in Alaska during the initial hours of test flying is unobtainable.

[Bissetg]

Insurance has been no problem for us for builds, test flying or on going ops on or off airport but given the recent spate of accidents I suspect that’s about to change.

To be fair to the underwriters this is a game of maths. We as operators we need to get ahead of it and lift our performance.

Any ideas on how to do so will benefit us all.

[kestrel]

We need more Jareds for Bearhawk training.

[jaredyates]

Yes, more ones and better ones and ones in other parts of the country and with more schedule availability. If there are any owners that hold instructor certificates I can help with the FAA part.

[Sir Newton]

I use COPA insurance. I guess it would be AOPA for pilots south of the 49th. COPA is always the most cost the effective option. I was not even asked about tail wheel time. However in Canada there is no tail wheel endorsment. What is an issue, is engine type. I am always asked about time on engine type.

[kestrel]

What is engine type? Piston vs. turbine?

[Sir Newton]

Basically,

[svyolo]

There might be wisdom in both the US and Canadian systems. I hate both government and insurance, but both have a role. A large part of the FAA does a decent job. Other parts have helped destroy GA, but not intetionally.. Time in engine type? At first I laughed. Then I thought of myself. 5 figures of TT, 2 figures of piston time. On the insurance side in the US they want TW time. Same answer for me.

I still think FAA certified rules, plus insurance rules, destroyed GA in the US. Experimental saved it.

[Ray Strickland]

I just renewed my 4-place policy with Falcon Insurance Agency:
AIG quote of $3300 ($95,000 hull value)
1100+ hrs total time, 1015 hrs tailwheel, 625 hrs in type