Vans rv-15

[PaulSA]

High wing, "back-country", all metal - just announced at KOSH. Be interesting to see how the spec compares with the applicable Bearhawk - still not clear whether it will be 2 or 4 seats.

Apologies for the sacrilege .....

[rv8bldr]

I watched that video, Paul, (recovering RV8 guy), and my take-away is that it is a two seat. They talk about deciding between a tandem or side-by-side. That only applies for a two seat I would think.

[Sir Newton]

Funny thing today this topic was discussed at length with my local pilots buddies. RV15 has a tough road ahead.
Two more of my close friends have ordered BH5 plans. That is three BH5s beginning built here on our field. !!! AWESOME imho

[PaulSA]

Well, if it's only going to be a 2-seater, I'm off the hook!!

[Sir Newton]

For owner operator pilot it is all about the mission. For Vans it is all about the profit.
My money is on a LSA style model.

[zkelley2]

If it can more or less do everything a 180 will, they'll sell a million of them.

If it fills the 150TD market, well it'll still sell because it's an RV but there's not much there outside the $100 hamburger guys.

[Av8rk9]

If you look at the RV line as a whole ... they know 2 place and only dabble in 4 place ... I'd bet this RV-15 is going after the Kitfox / Highlander / Rans 21 market ... with a 2 year wait for a Kitfox kit this makes market penetration sense ... There are enough tandem (cub-a-like) options in the market (BH Patrol, Carbon Cub, Legacy, Rans S7 / etc.) so going after the the market to get people who could be go RV instead of Kitfox sounds to me like genius ... time will tell.

[spinningwrench]

i think their kit will be a runaway success. People have been clamoring for VANS to come out with a tough, off road vehicle. They are ramping up their production capabilities and engineering staff to match a sales volume of 83 kits per week. They are the gorilla. That said the Bearhawk will always have a market for those who want tube and fabric and scratch build.

[m.mooney]

There are far too many tandem 2 place bush planes for it to make much sense for Vans to go that route. 2 place side by side? more likely. As mentioned above, if they introduce a 4 place kit that is similar to a C180; or better yet, a 185, it will be an absolute grand slam. This is where the market has the most room for growth. I’m sure they know this and I suspect it will be a 4 place aircraft. It makes the most sense, by far.
Mike

[Utah-Jay]

4 place and backcountry (think high DA’s and elevation) virtually eliminate the 4 cylinder engines unless you don’t put people in the back seats. 4 people and fuel puts you in the 2500# range.

[alaskabearhawk]

Not so sure. Murphy Moose can be outfitted with an IO-540, Murphy Yukon with an O-360 or IO-390. All AL construction. Are they a grand slam?

[zkelley2]

Murphy has a pretty bad history of support, poor instructions and all pull type rivets. I think there's been an ownership change of hands a few times.

Support and the best instructions in the industry is half or more why vans sells so many aircraft.

[alaskabearhawk]

You're the first person I have met that has actually flown a Moose! That's great information since I haven't heard anything positive or negative. And Zach as far as support goes, same thing. I haven't heard anything positive or negative...also good info

I used to have a poor opinion of pull-type rivets. But having been exposed to what is available now in the industry through my BH build I can see where they are safe and useful in pretty much all applications. But, of course they are heavier and WAY more expensive that good ol' rivets.

[m.mooney]

I’ve also flown a Moose. M14 radial was cool and it’s size/lift capability is very good. It flew like crap and Murphy’s support has proven to be less than stellar. So glad I didn’t go down that path but I have a friend that has 2 of them and likes them, mostly for what they do. I’m sure we’re all aware that a 4 place RV15 would fly very well and would crush the Murphy product. I hope that’s what they’ve got up their sleeve.

[Hewko]

The Moose uses the same 4415 airfoil as the Beaver, and the designer of the Beaver helped design the Rebel and Moose. It's a thick high lift airfoil that's great for heavy weights on floats, but it needs 400+ hp to make it work well and it still isn't fast. The kit's are still being produced in the original facility in Chilliwack B.C. but support and build instructions are marginal. I'm flying an amphibious Rebel and considered a Moose, but at 3500 lb gross it's a big plane, and I always liked the Riblett airfoil, with the much higher cruise speed and excellent stol. I think the BH 5 will be a better float plane than the Moose for most guys.

[Battson]

Murphy Moose / Super Rebel also had a serious problem in early life with rudder flutter, which resulted in several flutter events with massive structural damage occurring in most cases. I think in one or two cases the vertical stabiliser was totally ripped off the fuselage, or fuselage cracked most of the way through. Some may have actually crashed.

They released a fix and the problem was eliminated, but I think the reputational damage was already done.

[robcaldwell]

Kinda reminds me off a cross between a Murphy Moose and a GlaStar...

[Utah-Jay]

Single strut is good ~ Bearhawk and Cessna
Large vertical and rudder is good ~ Bearhawk and straight tail Cessnas
Tailwheel looks to have a Just/SuperSTOL style dampening piston
Does NOT sound like a Rotax
Got off the ground quick
Spring gear ~ Barf!!! Been there done that

In my opinion that style of empennage is not backcountry tough, my experience was in the Rans S-21, which is not up to the task. C-170 and C-180/5 are heavy duty, I doubt the RV-15 will have the structure (think heavy) to match the backcountry Cessna

[Nev]

Looks to be quite large flaps too.

[Mark Goldberg]

Can you guys tell from the picture if it is a two seater or four seater? Mark

[Sir Newton]

After watching the Utube video Vans released. It would appear there is a possibility to install a second row of seats making it a four place death trap. The engine sounds very much like an 210hp IO-390. It is a bored & stroked 0-320. imho 4 place requires more than 210 HP making this a side by side 2 place. IMHO the Patrol blows RV15 out of the water.

[Sir Newton]

RV15 may incorporate a hinge allowing the wings to fold up.??

[Hewko]

From the video it looks like a 2 seater. Definitely looks like the Murphy Rebel (3 seater) inside and out, that I'm currently flying, but without the cub style landing gear. Decades ago Dick said he really liked the Rebel design. It will be interesting to see which airfoil it has, and the the flap system used, looks like the hinge point is moved down and back.

[Hewko]

Watching the video again, it looks like they used a Cessna style track for the flaps.