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**whee** · 11-21-2019, 10:24 AM

Welcome Rick! In my opinion accomplishing a build is all about attitude. If you have the desire you'll find a way to get it done. The two most significant resources you need are time and money. If you have those then you can get it done.

IMO, a Bo and a Patrol would be a pretty sweet combination.

**JimParker256** · 11-21-2019, 11:28 AM

Rick,

Your introduction could have been mine... I've also been flying since the '70's, owned a really nice Commander 114 (Turbo-Normalized), but have had the "bug" to build a plane since I first saw the BD-5 in Popular Mechanics... My wife doesn't like flying, but is supportive of me doing so, as long as I don't try to make her fly with me all the time. And although I was a helicopter mechanic in the Army before I became an Army Aviator, I'm not one of those guys who can tear down and rebuild an engine in their sleep. I'm reasonably handy with tools, have some woodworking experience, and absolutely abhor plumbing! So not exactly the "Joe Fix-it" type... And I'm 25 minutes from the nearest airport, where my EAA chapter meets, and where I keep my "flying" airplane. (Sold the Commander to pay for the Patrol QB Kit and a '65 Citabria to fly while I was building the Patrol (also used it to get my tailwheel endorsement). I have a hangar at the airport, but it's only got one 110V outlet, no insulation at all (Texas summer = 98ÂºF), so I'm building at home. A couple of members of this forum have come by to see my build, but that's pretty much it.

I would say the biggest factor for success in building any airplane is persistence and drive. Nothing you will need to do is so difficult or challenging that you cannot learn it. I chose to buy the QB kit from AviPro, because their welds look like works of art, and it would have taken me a LONG time to get good enough at welding to feel comfortable flying something I welded together.

There are definitely a few things where you'll need a second set of hands (or sometimes several - like hanging the wings), but I'm confident I'll be able to arrange for some help when the time comes. D'Ann will gladly help me if it's only a quick thing, or I can call a neighbor to come over and give me a hand it it's something heavy or will take longer than she's willing to assist. I'm certainly not on the "fast track" with my build. Retirement has not meant "unlimited time to work on the plane" as I originally thought. I'm active in my church and community, have a 91-year-old mother in assisted living who needs to see me a few times a week (45 minutes each way), and my amazing wife actually likes spending time with me. (I know! I was as surprised as you are!) So my build is progressing at a much slower pace than I originally thought.

The old joke about how you eat an elephant (one bite at a time) is true. But like eating an elephant, there will come times when you are tired of elephant and would like some chicken or fish or ANYTHING besides elephant. For me, that typically happens when I spend an inordinate amount of time doing something that looked (to me) like it should have taken only a few minutes. For example, my first landing gear oleo strut took me 2 1/2 days to put together. Then the second one took less than two hours! Sometimes it's just a "learning curve" issue, or halfway through you think of a much better way to do something. Another time, I just could not figure out why the elevator actuator wasn't lining up and why I was having interference with the fuselage when the stick moved fore-aft... I spent a 1/2 day studying the plans (with no enlightenment), and finally placed a call to Mark G. He recognized that I had that entire assembly upside down... Somehow staring at the plans never made that one "click" for me... But with Mark's help, it was literally a five-minute fix.

Anyway, when those times come around, it's time to go flying instead of building. I've learned that building while frustrated often results in needing to re-do the work you just did... I can afford to built this plane, but not to build it 2-3 times!

If you've always wanted to build a plane, and think you have the persistence and drive to follow through with it, the Patrol is a great airplane to build. You'll learn a lot, and when you're "finished" (is any homebuilt ever really "finished"?), you'll have a fantastic airplane to fly.

But if you're just thinking of building a Patrol because you really want to fly a bush-capable tailwheel plane, take the money you would have spent building and go buy a plane similar to the Patrol (Super Cub, Pacer, Maule, whatever floats your boat), and be done with it. You'll be flying a lot faster that way.

**geraldmorrissey** · 11-21-2019, 12:47 PM

Just do it, it's fun.
Gerry
Patrol #30 wings

**kestrel** · 11-21-2019, 03:36 PM

I see you are in Burlington, VT. I'm in Mason, NH, right next to NH16. I'm not a builder and mine is a 4 place, but could be useful. There is a guy in Bethel, VT who has built a 4 place and is finishing up an LSA. He is a fantastic guy who can probably provide some help when needed.

**Mark Goldberg** · 11-21-2019, 03:41 PM

Rick, most of the kit builders have never built a plane before. If you are willing to ask questions and seek help when you are scratching your head about something - you would be fine. The only people who should NEVER build a plane are guys who think they know it all even though they have never done it before. If I can help you by answering any questions about the kits, tools required etc - get in touch. Mark 512/626-7886

**rmac** · 11-21-2019, 06:02 PM

Thanks, everybody. Your points are all well taken. Jim, I've been following the homebuilt world long enough to know that if your immediate goal is to have a flying airplane, buy one. Fortunately, I already have one of those. :-) It's the challenge of building that I'm after, plus the desire to have an airplane I can maintain myself in the longer run when I may no longer own a Bo.

Also for Jim: I totally relate to the eldercare piece. My mother is 102 years old and in assisted living a few miles from here. I see her almost every day and will as long as she's around to appreciate it. Believe it or not, she wants me to take her up in the Bonanza!

Jon: I have really enjoyed following your build to completion. (I'm sure you agree your plane is totally finished and perfect, right?) I appreciate that you built it with your father, IIRC. Mine has been gone for close on to 30 years but I wonder what he'd think about a build. He worked on Navy planes in the South Pacific during WW2. Someday I'll figure out what kind of plane is in the attached picture. Maybe a Grumman Wildcat?

Gerry: Okay!

Kestrel: I think I know where you're based because I lived in Brookline NH years and years ago. I remember seeing a builder in Bethel and will contact him.

Mark:I will definitely call you one of these days.

Again, thanks all. Further comments are welcome.

Best,
Rick

**Battson** · 11-21-2019, 09:51 PM

Yes, if you have been lurking here consistently for years, then you have what it takes!

Attitude is everything, if you can afford to do at least 30 minutes each and every day, then it will get done in just a few years. Once you start, it's hard to stop (unless you are forced to).

**Bcone1381** · 11-22-2019, 08:10 AM

Rick;

The decision to build was huge for me....not what to build....rather to declare "I've decided to build an airplane." It's also interesting how people I've know for a long time look at me differently. I think it inspires others to dream. I can see them think "Maybe I can do a big project too."

I build alone in my workshop at my home.

I've learned a lot about myself by building. I've made errors. I've Drilled out rivets. If I only do a task twice, I'm doing pretty good. I can't get angry If something doesn't go as planned, not angry at myself, or blame someone else. I would have quite by now had I not learned that about myself and control it. Now, a frustrating event is "An educational point of interest."

If I have a problem, I don't set it aside. I do what I can to solve it ASAP. (Buy a new tool, make a call, research, sit down and think and brainstorm ideas.) The reason we don't want to set problems aside is a builder will end up with a pile of problems. The pile appears insurmountable and the build will stop. It sucks life the project. So, I am aware what things feeds enthusiasm for my build and I become aware of what sucks life out the build. I Eliminate the bad, and multiply what energizes it. BTW, I call Mark G when I have any problem. He energizes me by ensuring my that I'm on the right track.

Painting is one of those things I need to learn, and equip for or it may become a sticking point. I figured out priming, but not painting.

I also take this one small step at a time. Focus on one task, and enjoy that one task.

What I'm saying is it might not be whether "You have the Chops to build or not." rather learn the skills and cultivate the attitude to create a culture and environment energizes you when you build. (like Whee said, time and money are foundational).

**robcaldwell** · 11-22-2019, 09:07 AM

I decided before buying my 4 Place kit that I would complete each and every task from start to finish. As I am now 3/4 through my build there have been many times that I started something only to want to set it down and move on to something else. But I persisted and maintained my commitment to myself and so far am happy that I do not have a dozen or so uncompleted portions of my build.

**zkelley2** · 11-22-2019, 10:34 AM

I had some large blocks of time this year to work on mine, but to properly utilize that, it meant I couldn't set something down and wait for a part before continuing. So I would have 10 things going at once in different corners of the hangar with notes as to what was going on attached since it might be 5 days or more before I'd get back to something due to shipping. It also meant doing my best to look forward and see what I was going to need before I got there.
I am lucky in that I could drive about 15 minutes to aircraft spruce which meant most everything I needed was available even if I didn't foresee it. Also helped keep weight down I think. A lot of builders will throw a washer or 3 on a bolt that's too long and call it a day to continue, and there's a couple spots that happened. But for the most part I could get the correct size on my daily trip to the parts store.

I never got to the point of AKKen though, who has his own box right next to the mx and 135 shops.

**rmac** · 11-22-2019, 10:37 AM

Thanks all. I find it really interesting that you all mention attitude and not one of you mentioned tool skill. Brooks, I like the idea of avoiding "a pile of problems." That makes total sense, and I don't remember seeing that idea before. (And I could certainly do that to myself...)

We'll see where this goes. I'm nearing the end of a lengthy and overdue renovation project on the Bonanza. I'm not doing much of that work myself (unless signing checks counts), but it's occupying a lot of my attention. After that's "done," and I'm fully current again, there can be time for homebuilding.

Best for the holiday season,
Rick

**James** · 11-22-2019, 04:13 PM

Hi Rick - my 2 cents' worth:

The help you'll find here on the forum is the greatest asset to your build - they keep you motivated and on-track, even in little ways: when I get sick of squeezing rivets, I have a glorious colour photo of Jonathan's plane somewhere in the NZ wilderness, and I just gaze at that for a minute or two... :-)

The knowledge is secondary. If you've done some home renos, or regularly fix your own car, etc etc then you already have the hand skills to build this plane. Just take your time and ask lots of questions. You have to enjoy tinkering in your workshop every day. If you're the sort of guy who'd rather spend his weekends playing golf or watching TV, then just buy a plane. I met guys in my local SAAA (=EAA) chapter here who told me they had zero interest in flying at all, they just liked building things.

Personally, I started this project with a 2 year time frame, working full time, and with a second-hand QB kit. I try to spend enough time with my wonderful wife each week to avoid losing my bearhawk in a future divorce settlement. I find I can build more quickly than I can plan / organise the materials for the next task. There's always lots to do. Rob says just do one job until you finish it. That's great, but I find I've always got four or five tasks on the go at once, due to access or waiting for parts. Every time I find something that needs fixing up, I write on green 3M 401+ tape and stick it to the wings. When there's no more bits of green tape on the wings, the wing is good to go.

I thought I'd work for 2 years and have a completed project. Actually, I've found out I've signed up for a intensive two-year A&P mechanic apprenticeship, and they throw a plane in at the end of it.

Good luck!

James

**svyolo** · 11-22-2019, 11:00 PM

Welcome Rmac. I can't really add anything that hasn't been said above. This forum and its' contributors are a great resource and i would have been lost with it/them. I find I can answer 95% of my questions by searching the forum. VAF is also a great resource for building techniques, and a better resource for things like engine/electrical/plumbing. I spent a lot more time on this one, but that one was invaluable as well. Just don't mention you aren't building an RV, the mods don't like invasive species.

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