Ground loop and aftermath

[Luke68]

Yesterday I had the very unfortunate experience of being involved in my first ground loop.
N274LC was signed off less than a week ago and has less than three hours on it, I was utilizing the dual pilot program with my instructor (CFII with close to 2000 hrs of tail wheel time) for the first few hours until I got comfortable with the plane, we we’re working through a slightly heavy right wing and heavy aileron feel when he asked if he could land it once to feel what I was feeling to help better diagnose the problem.
Everything was a textbook landing until the roll out when in an instant we were sliding sideways down the runway into the grass and the right gear shock strut failed
We still don’t know exactly what happened but we are learning towards him possibly touching the left brake inadvertent or just simply getting t behind the airplane.

I have the original aerodynamic struts that I was to cheap to upgrade to the new round ones, I don’t know this but I feel in this situation they might have saved us from folding the gear due to sliding on grass during the last half of the skid.
The other thing I wanted to mention is I installed lifting rings on my main spar bolts when I mounted the wings and they saved us a lot of trouble and possibly further damage to the plane and I would recommend installing them.

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[Nev]

Luke, very sorry to read this. I can see you've gone to the extra effort of taking an instructor with you, that's commendable.
Hope there's not too much damage and that you get N274LC back in the air soon.

[Luke68]

Thanks Nev
It’s definitely fixable just not looking forward to the time it’s going to take

[Hewko]

Luke, I sent you a PM, I have a BH4 that the same thing happened to in my shop

[Redneckmech]

I am very sorry to hear about this, it is devastating but thank you for passing on your experiences. Lifting rings are definitely on the consideration list now.
Please keep us updated, I hope to see 274LC back flying soon.

[Steve W]

Did you have dual brakes installed? Wondering if one locked up as pr Bob’s notice on the master cylinders??

https://bearhawkforums.com/forum/safety/84366-safety-update-regarding-bob-s-brake-master-cylinders-in-dual-brake-applications

[Luke68]

I do have dual brakes but I have the gerdes cylinders.

[rodsmith]

That is tragic Luke, hope the prop didn't hit, looks like it didn't. I've heard too many stories of highly experienced non owners having accidents. Have decided if someone wrecks my plane it is going to be me. I struggled with the strut issue, ended up buying the round ones from Mark. Sounds like that may have been a good idea.

[Luke68]

Unfortunately the prop did hit so I have that whole issue to deal with along with the gear and wing.
I definitely wish I would have been at the controls I’m not very experienced in a bearhawk but I wasn’t having any trouble keeping it on the runway.
Yes the round gear I think is the way to go but on the plus side I believe my fuselage is still straight

[Utah-Jay]

Luke

I read this just after you posted, but waited a couple of days as I really did not know what to say. I am just gutted for you! All the hard work that all of us builders can identify with and then something like this. Made me kinda sick to my stomach to be honest, I am not sure what I would feel in your position. I am just glad no one was hurt, sure planes can be fixed…. I guess I would be overwhelmed.

Like you I am planning on taking a safety pilot up with me for the first 5 hours, required by insurance in my case, but a great idea even if not required.

You have a beautiful plane, I look forward to seeing it back up in the air.

Good luck

[Luke68]

I flew five hours with Jared a few weeks before I flew mine and I would say it was some of the best money I’ve spent on the project

[Utah-Jay]

On another note, where are people sourcing lifting rings and how are they attached? How do they fit with the fairings? And water issues?

[gregc]

See this thread: https://bearhawkforums.com/forum/bea...rings#post9637

[svyolo]

Metal lifting rings are good, but just simple loops of synthetic strap/rope will also work just as well, permanently installed or temporary. Both work.

That looks like a beautiful plane. Sorry for the accident. I hope it turns out OK.

[Utah-Jay]

What about these? Would they work/fit on the BH design?

https://www.univair.com/atlee-dodge/piper-parts/view-all/3217-metal-spar-lifting-eyes-fits-piper/

[500AGL]

Yes. Perfectly. (Both altee dodge and univair offer long ones - call and confirm length needed)

[Luke68]

I made my lifting rings out of 1/4x1” stainless strap that I clamped into my vise and twisted with an adjustable wrench. I cut my fairings just enough to get them thru and used clear silicone, seemed to work good.

[Battson]

Oh no....

What a disaster, very sorry to see this news.

I have never liked the way the main wheels can suddenly "grab" and pull you sideways on pavement. Especially with smaller tires without much give in the sidewall.

[500AGL]

Yup, that hurts alot. I only know part of the feeling as my cub wasn’t rebuildable, but I also didn’t build it.

For others, as he mentioned, sometimes a few hours of training in type give you the advantage over experienced instructors without in-type training. Not saying this was the case, but food for thought. (The flip side of the coin is someone that truly has the right experience and none of the ownership emotion is more logical for first flights in case something goes wrong)

For those moving towards the finish line, a small reminder. A nice grass strip and big tires are more forgiving then small tires and pavement.
And builders always double check your main gear track per the instructions and discussions. Toe-in/out can wreak havoc if not corrected.

[Luke68]

My home strip is 2200 feet of grass and it was discussed many times to do the test flying from there but we ultimately decided to go with the 8000’ paved strip mainly because our grass strip is only 100’ wide with hangers that are really close on both sides, if this would have happened there we would have almost certainly hit a hanger. I checked the wheel alignment and it taxied fine, I landed it three times with no problems. I’m really leaning towards my instructor just not being aggressive enough on the rudder pedals

[500AGL]

Luke,
I know enough to not second guess outcomes of scenario's that I am not intimately familiar with, which in this case is this event. 100' wide is a narrow strip for new build flight testing certainly. Grass may have allowed it to be saved after starting, but you made the right choice on not doing it at you home strip.

Like others have indicated I tend to agree with your assessment, with the CFI simply not having enough time in type.

[N942VT]

Sorry Luke, it's a gut punch for sure. Hard for us to know what happened from here, seems that your gear was aligned or you would have known that right away. But it's a good point to check alignment early in the build, I've seen a few that needed adjustment due to welding warp after they came out of the fixture. My understanding is that the factory is more focused on making sure that is not a problem.

[Mark Goldberg]

Luke, I feel very bad for you for this to happen after working hard and long to build your bird.

I had a lot of discussions here in New Zealand with Grant Bisset who is a very accomplished pilot and instructor. Many thousands of hours of tailwheel time/instruction. He is very emphatically of the opinion that new Bearhawkers should learn to fly their planes on grass whenever possible. It is so much more forgiving than on hard surface (or "seal" as they say here).

Not everyone has that option. But I agree with him from my limited flying experience. N303AP was much easier to control on grass.

Just thought I would throw this out there for guys yet to finish and fly.

[Bissetg]

Groundlooping on grass is still bad, just not as likely to result in damage.

The friction coefficient for dry short grass is about half of pavement, wet grass or grass with clover is about half of dry short grass. (Source: Opus NZ traffic braking test)

The best thing to do is maintain directional control (straight) until you are stopped.